Enterprise-wide and Experience-wide with PebblePad’s CEO

Shane Sutherland, PebblePad

Shane Sutherland, Founder, CEO and Chief Mischief Maker at PebblePad’s annual community event on ‘Enterprise-wide and Experience-wide’. This recording is from our 2022 MiniBash community event which was hosted in Birmingham, England. Videos are for educational personnel only and require a live educational email to watch. You can read the video transcript below.



It’s it’s brilliant to see you all here today. I know some folks haven’t quite made it yet. There’s been this awful train thing happening between Wolverhampton.

It’s that bit of an echo between Wolverhampton and Birmingham.

So we might find people still trickling in as we go along.

Particularly if you start tweeting how wonderful it all is, and I’ll give them more motivation to get here.

So, yeah, CEO founder co founder, actually. It just doesn’t look great co founder. Colin, who remembers Colin, yeah, a few hands in the business.

Chief mischief maker means really now as our team’s growing, I kind of just prod people, make sure we’re doing the right, right kind of things, make sure we’re staying true to what we set out to do.

There is a bit of feedback loop there. Isn’t there? It’s like I wanna get my guitar and kinda rub it against the microphone.

My presentation this morning is gonna be as much of a surprise to me as it is to you, because, I’ve kind of forgot what it’s all about. But hopefully, each each slide will remind me enough to keep on going.

Somebody said, I really because, in fact let’s just do a check How many people here actually sort of know me? Patricia, My team Libby.

You do, is is Rachel here? Yeah.

No. I see some people a bit late, Emma P, Andy Kirk, Becka. You know me. It used to be the case that everyone in the room would kind of know me. And I would know most of you, and I apologise I don’t know all of your names, because there’s just a few too many of you now. In fact, I was gonna make the the little joke that when Emma arrives, Emma Purnell, she was one of the first students ever to use PebblePad and I kinda knew a lot of students that were using it, because they would call me directly when they had a problem crying sometimes, So but all of that story, because, when we started, I was still working at the University of Wolverhampton, and, I was a principal lecture in education, got a bit disgruntled with the technology we were using, thought, we can do better than that. Became an accidental platform designer, an even more accidental businessman, and here we are eighteen years later still, trying to do our thing.

Now that story is on our blog. There’s lots of other really good stories on there, but the one in particular that talks about the evolution of PebblePad, how it all came about.

Is that story. It also talks about some very skewed ideas of academia and some abandoned bottles of Sherry.

When I started at Wolverhampton, I took in a bottle of Sherry Fine tutorials, and, it never ever got opened because that’s not the kind of thing you actually do, is but I went straight from inner fireman to being a lecturer in in education, which was an odd move, but, it’s all in there. If anyone wants to read it, great way to go to sleep at night, work your way through that. Not story.

It occurs to me that This would be the middle day of what should be our three day bash.

I mean, it is brilliant to have all of you here for one day. Thank you for making the effort because some of you have come a long way.

I think Jodie probably beats everybody because she’s come from Melbourne We’ve got some folks on the way from Edinburgh. It’s Robert here.

Fantastic. Anyone from further afield Dundee. Fantastic. Abertay, Fantastic. Brilliant. Welcome.

But Jodie still wins it from from Melbourne. But this would have been, day the middle day of our three day bash.

And the three day bash is wonderful because It’s all the stuff that happens around the program, isn’t it? All the conversations over dinner, all the all the following up with people because you’ve got time to do that.

So we will try and get back to a proper three day bash.

At some point, somewhere details to be decided and disclosed.

And anything, by the way, that I referenced to, like, that blog post and some other stuff, we’ll send an email out after the day. So you’d have to worry about writing down all sorts of links and things. And we’ll definitely let you know about PebbleBash twenty three.

That’s you know, we’re based in Telford?

Yeah. That’s out of our office window more or less.

So sort of what have been what have we been doing in the last, two years?

Or I was gonna say what’s been happening, but, you know, apart from the obvious, as Kenny said, we’ve been recruiting like mad.

And it makes me really proud actually. We’ve managed managed to attract people like Kenny, you know, formerly a general manager of, Instructure, (Canvas) and Samantha from the same stable.

Matt Borg from Ocean Technologies.

Lisa Gray and Heather Price from Jisc.

And then also, in fact, there’s gonna be loads of people I forget here.

People who’ve come to us from our customers, and I think it’s always worries me because I hate poaching people. I promise you they come to us rather than we go and steal them. But Nicola from Derby, Neil from Bradford.

Jane from Liverpool, Louise from Worcester.

So wonderful people who actually know what we really stand for and have decided to come and join us and help us with our mission or indeed our vision.

And I should say it’s not just to keep filling holes.

We’ve probably got the lowest attrition rate of any tech company in the country. I’d have thought. We lose very, very few people.

And some oh, flip.

I just realised As I called on those names out, they were supposed to go, that’s me. So you’d all know who those people were, but we’ll just do it for Toni.

So Toni is our Chief Technology Officer. And you know, employee number one started writing the very first bit of code for PebblePad we’ve got, I think I counted twelve people who’ve been with us ten years. There’s about another ten or twelve who’ve been with us somewhere between ten seven and ten years. People like what we do, people like working for us.

That’s why Sallie came to join us to help us maintain that kind of value in the business as we grow out And all of those people are joining us because in a way we felt, we weren’t able to operate quickly enough would be doing this eighteen years. When I started, and I was still that principal lecturer in education, thought this is a no brainer, this PebblePad idea. Within about six months, the whole world will be using it, and I can retire. It’ll be fantastic.

It takes longer than that because what we’re trying to do really is change learning teaching and assessment. And we’ve seen, of course, an acceleration of that over the last two years.

A move from, you know, generalising here, of course, but from content and core centric curriculum, to one which is much more about skills.

And I don’t just I don’t just mean, and I definitely don’t just mean employability skills. But the skills that I look for in my workforce, for example, creativity, innovation, resilience, the ability to communicate complex ideas effectively, to learn, unlearn, relearn, to problem solve, to have an ethical, moral framework they operate by.

And they’re not things which are just easily taught. I think they’re things which are reinforced from experience where knowledge is tested out and experienced in multiple contexts over time. And that’s what we’re trying to support with with pebble pad, and there weren’t enough of us to do it. So we’ve been, as I say, building like mad, building out our engineering team, we’ve got almost double the number of teams we had, not double the number of people, because one of the things we learned was you don’t keep throwing developers at a problem, you need to put lots of support around them.

So sorry. I’m just sticking with your talk here, Toni, but agile delivery managers engineering managers to provide all the support, the professional development for our teams, test engineers, and all of that. So we’re busy building out engineering, This is building a product team because it used to be, Shane would draw things on a bit of paper, hand them to employee number one, and employee number one would build them.

Along with employee number two, Andy Everson, who’s still with us.

And now, of course, we were so much more, you know, the thing about to be careful what you wish for, we always wish to be successful, and the more successful we are, the more ways more people are using the platform for more and more important things, and that brings with it certain expectations.

And so we’ve got a professional product team we’ve to understand those expectations and translate them into value that we deliver through the platform.

And then a marketing communications team to share those ideas with the wider world.

A business development team, I tell this story quite often about one of our biggest ever customers, I had a business card sat on my desk for about six months, and I couldn’t be bothered to ring them because I thought that probably wasn’t a good fit. Turns out there was a fantastic and I was just a rubbish, rugby salesperson. So now we’ve got a brilliant business development team that have a strong, educational background as well, doing all of that kind of business side of things.

So our customer success people who you might know as learning consultants can work directly with our customers and help them, help you be successful.

And then learning services, which Kenny, noted earlier, we’ll see a little talk from later.

Who now do, you know, learning there’s a number of you I think here who’ve who’ve bought into the learning design service, and I think, like, we can do some really good, heavy lifting from you.

But not just heavy lifting that your commissioners do, but some of the heavy lifting around the the well-being workbook we talked about and the digital capabilities workbook. And we’ll try to start to build things, which we think might be useful for the wider community, and then you can have them for free if it helps you get better use out of the platform.

So that’s what we’ve been busy doing.

Right at the start of the pandemic, we built fifteen little videos, little too many videos.

Who’s seen those?

No. Really? Marketing Communications.

Get on it. They are they’re brilliant, honestly. I’m not just saying it because I paid for them.

They’re about two minutes long. They really ignite. They’re great examples of practice telling you how you might think about using PebblePad four things like personal tutoring for problem solving for flipped classroom, for managing competencies, for placements, two minute watch, I promise you they’re excellent. You don’t have to watch them all. Just watch two or three, and you’re I’m sure you’ll be inspired.

So we’ve built up the PeddleVision videos, and they’re on the PebbleVision page. And we’ve also done all of that stuff too.

And I noticed when I moved around chatting to people this morning, One of the themes was about the kind of ways in which they use PebblePad.

And often people come to PebblePads and just use a little sort of part of it because it fixes a particular problem they had. And part of our job today and part of people’s motivation for being here today, those I chatted to was finding out about a wider range of possible uses, to get the very best value out of the platform.

And we’ll send you links to the resource portal. We’ll send you links caught me to the video, to television and all of this stuff. So you don’t have to remember it. We’ll we’ll remind you.

And we’ve been doing bits of research, and I know the image isn’t great, and it’s been hard to see from the back, which is why we put our team there.

We we did some research around, a career readiness, and we found there’s a webinar say, behind oh, sorry. There’s the re research, then we did a webinar. All of our webinars are recording available on our website for free.

We should have in the room, Tim Hinchcliffe, still on his way.

Donna, and, again, Gavin, maybe. They great speakers on that webinar talking about, you know, how how we embed employability or future skills in the curriculum.

One of the things we found in our research where we spoke to seven hundred and fifty students was a general lack of confidence that they either understood the skills that they needed to be successful in the future or that they if they did know what their skills were, they didn’t think they’d have the chance to develop them.

Now personally, I think that’s not right. I think they are developing, those skills. I just don’t think they know it.

And they may not be able to prove it. And it’s what our Canadian customers in particular referred to as their skills articulation gap that we’re doing things in the best interests of our students, but they don’t always know that they’ve had this had these skills and or can articulate them in confident way.

And our latest bit of research, which is not yet out. It’s coming out, I think, in a couple of weeks.

Was on learning and teaching priorities. We spoke to, a hundred, learning and teaching professionals in higher education.

And said, what are you gonna be focusing on in the next three years?

And I was gonna say you can see, but you probably can’t see.

Embedding employability is one of those things.

I always get a bit nervous about employability because it feels a bit kind of too focused. I always like to think about In fact, one of the universities, that we work with talks about, skills for life, skills for work, and skills for success or something like that and tries to kind of broaden it out. I just think about future readiness. So whether you go on to a further career in in academia, for your further study or third sector become an entrepreneur or going to the workplace. There are certain skills which I think are broadly agreed to be common.

So employing, embedding employability, changing assessments, you know, so many different calls to get rid of exams and change, you know, learn stuff, recite it. In whatever form that re recitation kind of works, is that a proper word, restitution?

Can we agree that it is now?

Collaboration, and not just collaboration with the usual suspects, you know, employers, and into disciplinary collaboration, but collaboration with students, and I think the idea of co ownership of of learning outcomes is now a big, thing as well. And is anyone familiar with slicks from Edinburgh?

Slick’s a great example where these PebblePad workbox are students to set their own learning outcomes and design their own learning programs.

Extending the use of technology, the appropriate use of technology, technology like Hubble Pad, obviously been highly appropriate to what we’re talking about, and the focus on well-being as well. And that’s, I think, particularly accelerated over the last two years too.

So this research will be coming out soon. And as long as you’ve given us permission, we’ll alert you when that’s out. Hopefully you’ll find an interesting reading.

And and I think what’s common of course, I I come at this from a particular, through a particular lens as well.

But what I see from all of that stuff is, and and and from events I go to and things I’m reading and hearing, Lots of curriculum transformation projects, which seem to be moving, skills, you know, for youth skills, a shorthand for stuff, which isn’t largely content. And, you know, and I use it to mean mindsets and all that sort of stuff as well. Attributes from being, bolted onto the edge of the curriculum.

So they’re like curriculum satellites, and sometimes not very well connected satellites, so now being right at the center of some of these big curriculum transformation projects.

And I think that’s really important, that idea that there’s there’s in effect a set of skills. If I when when I started teaching, I used to run a big module called learning for success, and it was really for first in family, students, or it wasn’t just first in family. We had a large a widely participation agenda at Wolverhampton.

And learning for success was all about, understanding the hidden rules that students sort of just no one told them, you know, and helping them with just stuff that would catch them out like paraphrasing and how to use a library and string in a sentence together and thinking about a wee bit of basic essay structure, those kinds of things working as a group, communicating ideas, And I think there’s something really important about the idea of skills at the center of the curriculum. And then sort of develop and viewed for a disciplined lens, and then disciplined specific skills augmenting those skills. And this may not be the perfect diagram, but I And if anyone’s working on stuff like this, I’d love to be chatting to you and finding it and expanding my own knowledge. It feels like there’s probably more of a spiral curriculum but should be in operation here. So skills are revisited and expanded and made sense of, demonstrating different contexts.

But I think there’s there’s a movement. I think there’s a movement around bringing skills from the edge into the center and building upon them.

And as I mentioned earlier, it’s the stuff that’s really important to me as an employer.

We’ve got two of our apprentices is chatting today. We’ve got eleven apprentices in our business. They’re brilliant.

We’ve got clearly a part of young, a fairly young workforce as well, hands of very old people, but we’re looking at the same things in all of them, whether in the creative side of the business, or the engineering side, or the test side of the business, those things I about ability to work with each other, to problem solve, to think creatively, to be curious to, and I talked about this in in fact, that employability, webinar, we tried to inculcate, in them a questioning approach, a bank of questions that it can level at all of their experiences to sort of extract learning from it and sense making from it.

So am I even finished on time?

So where does PebblePad fit in all that?

Well, this this is very much a work in progress. You are my guinea pigs here.

The I’m not I’m not sure how we would say that.

Daniel, how would you say the the first word?

Ewee. Yeah. Ewee could do that one.


Eewy boy?

E u y. E u y or u y. Yeah. I mean, I have no idea. It’s obviously it’s it’s obviously a rubbish name. It’s utterly awful.

So I need to change it. It actually, when I was thinking about stuff, what’s the model all about, and it was about enterprise wide, experience wide implementations.

Now there’s a link here. Toni, will you pass me that rucksack, please?

You might be wondering why all of the kind of goodies are just loosely on the tables. I’m not sure if someone mentioned. We ordered a pile of lovely bags for everybody.

Not these.

And we’ve been victim of the, supply chain logistics crisis, and they didn’t arrive. They’ve probably arrived in our office this afternoon.

So because we haven’t got a bag, I’ve snaffled from a really valuable merch cupboard, a PebblePad rucksack made by Milliken in the late district, beautiful thing, made out of recycled plastic bottles.

That’s up for grabs.

For whoever tweets using MiniBash2020, the best alternative name for my Yui Yui Yui model.

And some light explanation will be good in there as well. But, and indeed if you don’t want to win the bag just some commentary on it would be helpful because as I said, this is kinda new. But we were thinking, you know, how how and where does PebblePad fit?

So, different people I chatted to this morning already. I can I can position your use of pebble pad in different kind of places on on the UVU model?

And the very best implementations sort of have, what’s the word? Exposure, I suppose, across the entire bottle. So let me share this with you and see what you think.

When the model looked a bit like this, thanks to mark for making my awful slides look so much better than they originally did.

So time across the slide and we’ve kind of split it into six lumps, including preenrollment, because that seems to me a pretty important time and going to post enrollment or post graduation.

And then context running down the page.

And you might think of these as sort of swim lanes, and there will be others.

And when you’re tweeting, in fact, later on as we’ve got a padlet link for you. And I will share the padlet link on the email and later on it’d be really interesting to have you suggest other possible swim lanes and things that might fit into those swim lanes, because this is my first stab at this.

But in essence, we’ve got at the moment, five contexts. And if we start highlighting some of those, these are the ways in which I think PebblePad.

In fact, I know is being used, but some of you won’t be using pebble pat like this. So in a way, this is a sales pitch for me to say, why aren’t you? Think about this. Sure there’s an opportunity here.

That pre arrival one is really interesting. I think there are I’ve got folks here from Cumbria. Oh, yeah, I know we’ve got folks from Cumbria on Slack, and, Leeds, we know, and I think that some others are using pebble pad portfolios predominantly to share information with students to say, Hey, it’s fantastic you’re gonna come and join us, and here’s a bunch of stuff that might be interesting.

But we can’t do that as workbooks at the moment because you have to log into a workbook to do stuff, don’t you? So you can’t actually start to engage with it. You can’t start to think and reflect and plan and make sense of.

So I’m really interested in in us doing some work around being able to create work you can just send a link to, and someone can log in and create their own account, give us a bit of information so that when they become an enrolled student, they automatically get matched and morph into a institutional account, and maybe that portfolio just or workbook rolls into a welcome.

Or orientation workbook. And if anyone’s interested in working with us on that sort of thing, Sam Samantha Claire. Sam Samantha Claire, can you kind of do go like this.

Find those people.

Tell them why you’d like to work with us on it, and we’ll find a way to make that happen.

Lots of stuff going around welcoming. Welcome is Oh, thought you were just waving.

Welcome week, I remember really disorientating the amount of stuff that gets thrown as people So we’ve we’ve seen great examples of welcome week workbooks, helping people get oriented. The Cumbria ones had beautiful little videos embedded in them as a welcome from the I think they had different versions according to the faculty you were going in to make them a bit more personalised as well.

And then leading into personal academic churching. We’re seeing that happening at scale in some of our customers now, Leeds and Birmingham spring to mind, but also a in the States and PSU, slightly different model, but, advising and, course mentoring. Happening through these workbooks.

Sometimes they happen a year at a time, sometimes they’re a whole experienced workbook and just new bits of it appear over time. I guess everyone knows that that is that kind of timed release thing you can do.

And then, of course, is that transition piece. And I wasn’t sure if here that I should have some transition work some fantastic work going on in transition workbooks in Edith Cowan University.

But obviously transition to your new career or your further study or whatever that happens to be. So there’s a place, I think, for PebblePad, for that entire, if you’re like belonging and well-being journey. We’ve seen happening in some places.

Probably where we say PebblePad being used more often is in program stuff. And I’ve said program wide, but often it’s not. It’s sometimes in just little discrete places.

But your foundation courses, again, if I think of places like something And I’m sorry I referenced so many international institutions because I tend to spend more when I go and travel and see them. Spend more time with them than I do with you folks in the UK, and that’s something I should probably put right.

But things like flip classroom for foundation things. So, because when you’ve got a foundation course and you’ve got a workbook, all of that learning isn’t locked up in the LMS. It kinda goes with you, and you can refer back to it, and you can build upon it over time.

Obviously, just using things like our templates for reflection, group projects.

Again, it’s the same members not made it here yet. It’s a fantastic group projects where students are working in industry at Plymouth.

Is Rachel here yet?

No. She better come because she’s doing a big talk at the end of the day.

Developing there are other people here from Nottingham Trent. Any Nottingham Trent people here yet.

Okay. Of course. The Nottingham Trent table, the Birmingham table.

So the challenge modules, I think, which is part of your curriculum transformation stuff.

And then, of course, things in, in medicine, nursing, with midwifery, pharmacy, engineering, I’ve used engineering as my kind of theme for this one, you know, use your own discipline, but those are professional standards. And all of the time, the experiences that you’re having are generating evidence, which be hung on to your professional standards, workbook or portfolio, preparing for placement, I’m amazed how many places still send students just out on placement, and they have to do stuff on placement. There’s not a full preparation phase.

The planning bit, the what I want to get out of this, what success looks like to me. Brilliant examples from Waterloo University in Canada on those placement portfolios SLICCs, I mentioned, student led individually created courses, placement portfolios, the bit where who what was our latest webinar? We had a webinar around something recently. That’s the problem we’ve had so many and we had, Helen Dugmoor from Murdoch University talking about how some of her students were on placement over three thousand kilometers.

Away from the university, because they’re in Western Australia, and had placement portfolio served not only as a a learning space for the students, but actually a learning space for the very remote professionals who are mentoring the students because the people back at university could engage with them through the workbook as well.

Hope some of this is making sense.

Final year projects and, of course, professional accreditation. And again, we’ve got examples where students carry forward things like teaching portfolios and use them as part of their professional accreditation. And indeed, we’ve got Richard here today from education workforce, counseling wales, who uses PebblePad to support professional standards for teachers and other professionals in Wales.

So there’s that kind of program wide bit, then we’ve got skills and success, and I’ll do this a bit more quickly. I suppose the first year experience, and some of these might be into the belonging and well-being piece.

Digital capability, Lisa’s going to talk about this later as part of the learning services thing. I know there’s about seventeen people, seventeen customers represented here today that use PebblePad and the gist digital capability tool. And we know from conversations we’ve had that that digital capability thing tell students what they’re good at and what they’re not so good at and hear some resources. It doesn’t offer any opportunities to action plan.

To to to work on it over time, to provide evidence, to engage purposefully with their tutors. So the workbook probably stolen half of you all talked there, Lisa, but after food, anyone would want to be reiterated on that. So with things like digital capability workbooks, graduate attributes, and whatever kind of name they go by now, employability, skills, career portfolios.

And then up in the extracurricular convers does anyone do conversational offer conversational Cantonese at their university?

Maybe I need to move it. Someone did say it should be mandarin. There’ll be more people who kind of say yes to that. So this is me just goofing here, but things like student ambassadors awards, things that are offered by the unions and and guilds, Chancellor’s Awards. We see those at Durham, Edinburgh, where maybe not call that, but same sort of thing.

And then just and we we see lots of this, but not as much as we should, just people who start using the platform because they’ve been brought to it. People will now just come to when I was a naive, early pebble pad designer, I thought this would be brilliant. People would just naturally gravitate to it start using it to reflect and plan things. Of course, they don’t or students’ lives are so busy. They need to have really well designed.

Learning and assessment interventions created by you, which hopefully over time show the value of the platform, and then they might start using it for other things, like their reading journal. In fact, there was a great learning journal project at Sheffield Hallham University. I’m not sure if that’s still running or not.

Application for summer job, for example, and keeping all of my other bits and bobs, you know, recording my volunteering qualifications I might get So it’s a bit of a, you know, it’s a best case sort of scenario in a way.

But what I think happens if we’ve got this all happening is for the student, imagine this first year student, it doesn’t matter that they those things were not meant to line up you know, they’re not meant to be a coherent kind of, first year story.

But imagine actually if you did have a transition portfolio that first year, or you asked someone to talk about how they had developed in that first year, that could draw upon all of these things to help tell that story. And more important than even just telling the story is that all the way through that first year experience.

They have been prompted, prodded, encouraged to think about their learning, to level questions at their learning, to think about what they’ve achieved, what they did less well, how those how those things started to link together, to plan, to prepare, to make sense. And I think they’re really important things.

So the more swim lanes we can cross, the better the learning experience I would suggest, And even if you just then had a, you know, an embedded example across a program, like we do see in pharmacy, like we see in medicine, and like we see in other professional progress, but I don’t think it should be confined to a professional route to have that cohesive experience of using pebblepad.

So that’s in the way a bit of a pitch. I’ve got thirty seconds left.

It’s highly unusual for people who’ve been to my presentations before to end on time.

Let’s let’s see. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Seeing some nods. Some people are gonna any I’ll take a question or two if anyone has one.

But it’s even better because we can I can give up the stage?

Oh, I’ll send you sorry, don’t forget.

That’s the we’ve had to say don’t forget. I’m giving it you yet. That’s the padlet link.

But we’ll share that through the email.

And remember if you tweet something about this, the best suggested name gets to win that beautiful bag, and that’s usually What’s what’s the biggest challenge for successful implementation?

That’s why we did a three day.


I I think if you look at something like that, you you realize that actually, we talk about implementation, and sometimes implementation means bringing somebody in as a learning technologist, giving them, like, a half time post, and say make PebblePads successful. And that’s just nuts, isn’t it? The very best implementations always have a team wrapped around them. There’s always a senior stakeholder really leading it. And I think that’s why things like this, these institutional wide drivers really help because you do get that senior support and a team, and a and a project manager is so important. But I think also you can see the kind of people who would make successful program wide implementation is a very different team of people to those who would create a belonging and well-being implementation.

Or the people who are doing the skills and success. So I think there are actually several implementation teams that need to be driving this, have a vision for it.

But then you need someone above all of those teams, corralling, supporting, doing some of those head lifting for them. Having the fights. So it’s not simple. You know, like an LMS, when you switch one to another, you’re not changing to men in many ways, you’re not changing pedagogy. You’re just changing a toolset. It might make it easier for people to use in the old one, but this requires an awful lot more effort than that. That’s why it’s taken as eighteen years so far, and it’s not going to be over anytime soon.

But we just have to keep on finding different ways to talk about it and keep on I think hope hopefully inspiring people. And the examples of practice we’ll see today can’t do anything other than help inspire folks of, ah, that’s a That’s an example we never even thought of. Let’s go and try that at our place and see if it works.

I’m, now over time, Thank you so much, for your time and patience.

We will send these links out.

When people ask you what pebble pad is, I’m gonna bring this slide up. How do we say what PebblePad is? It’s like it’s all of those things, isn’t it? Learning journey platforms what we’ve settled on, but it’s all of those things. It’s that’s another part of the implementation piece, Elliot, How do we how do we tell people what it is? It’s such a big, flexible thing.




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